who is better manager, arsene wenger or jose mourinho??
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Arsene Wenger.
i absolutely adores his team play fast-flowing football during overmars n petit days.
i m amazed how he manages to spot talents, eg. anelka, henry, vieira, etc.
i m impressed by how he protect his players with his, "i did not c the incident"
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Originally posted by iceFatboy:
big sam.
how about we change another angle to look at this?
which manager is able to prolong and protect his players' career?
meaning that the players' do not self-destruct without manager's care.
Like how Best, Gazza for example.
For SAF, he got Giggs, GaryN, Scholes.
What about the others? -
big sam is those bully kind though.
i prefer coppel or copell, reading manager, look at reading now, like last season wigan. i tink nex season, they would be like the now wigan -
paul jewell is stupid...selling away players like bullard daimen franics jason roberts etc ...these r the players which help them do so well in the 1st season..if reading was like wigan..selling away their player...they might haf a chance ended up like wigan
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Between the two? Tough choice.. Mourinho got something but then again I can't really say much. With Porto he did wonders.. winning trophies.. but the team footballing style didn't impress me much. Don't talk about Chelsea. I feel that Chelsea is a team that was assembled with money so really can't say much about the manager but then again Mourinho did what Ranieri couldn't do. But Wenger impresses me more. As a Man U fan, a rival manager in the EPL whom I would be a afraid of is Wenger. There is probably a reason why his name, Arsene and Arsenal sounds pretty similar haha.. He is what Arsenal is. Flowing, technical, flair football. Anelka was super deadly when he was with Arsenal. Fits in the system perfectly until he got greedy and wanted more. Bergkamp is a genius. And now, Henry who is like super god like! The future looks really bright for Persie, Fabregas and Walcott. Not only Wenger has an eye for these gems, he polished them so brightly and he created a footballing system that brings out the best in these gems. If one person whom I would really love to take over Ferguson would be Wenger but of course that would be impossible.. Henry is officially my idol...
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he was forced to sell bullard as the release clause is activated and bullard agree to the fulham dealOriginally posted by lalaTearz:paul jewell is stupid...selling away players like bullard daimen franics jason roberts etc ...these r the players which help them do so well in the 1st season..if reading was like wigan..selling away their player...they might haf a chance ended up like wigan
as for Francis and Jason Roberts i not sure why they sell or force to sell or other reasons -
fandi ahmad...
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30million pounds is to ensure that they don't fall into the wrong hands. be it 75% or what, they have to be polished. Like Diamonds, they themselves are diamond, but without expert care, they can end up either on a lady's fingers or as a cutting tool.
Now you want to micro and say the last few years.
Rem, soccer is a very real game. You can be a legend but if you can't work with the management out you go. It is the same everywhere.
Look at Vieira or Pires or even Duff.
Please don't be so one-sided lah.
i dont think i am one sided.that why i dont say theo walcott is developing talents coz he is already famous when wenger bought him and he cost over 10million pound.
what i am trying to point that SAF has not produce any raw talent since beckham, scholes, butt, neville bros. he is pressure to produce instant results. -
Originally posted by CKeer:
Porto may be a Portugal powerhouse, but in terms of financial-wise, I don't think they did any better than teams like Newcastle. And look where he brought them to in Europe before he joined Chelsea. Porto was nothing in Europe before Jose. It seems that a lot of people forgot that he brough them to Euro success before he joined the billionaire team. To me, that's already proof that he is a good manager.
I agree but half of my vote goes to Wenger for his talent in spotting raw gem and the ability to polish them.
I think Mourinho needs to manage a [b]mid-table team, morph them into Euro Powerhouse before he can be considered a great manager. If not for Roman's billions, Jose would have been off in the first season in charge i think.
Cheers.
C.K[/b]
If u want to talk about great managers, look no further than Bill Shankley, Sir Alex Feguson etc even though i am no Man U fan.
Wenger has a good eye for young players, but I seriously think that his tactics is questionable. A good attacking side is nice to see for the football fan, but what's the point of playing attacking football if u can't win trophies? Barcelona is the only good attacking team in recent years that prove that u can win trophies and play attractive football at the same team. True, Arsene's team has gone 1 season unbeaten before, and he has won FA Cups and league titles for his team before, but in Europe, he still lacks behind SAF, Jose Mourinho and even Rafa Benitez. -
BILL SHANKLY !!!!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by reyes:
My point is SAF did it before!!!
[b]30million pounds is to ensure that they don't fall into the wrong hands. be it 75% or what, they have to be polished. Like Diamonds, they themselves are diamond, but without expert care, they can end up either on a lady's fingers or as a cutting tool.
Now you want to micro and say the last few years.
Rem, soccer is a very real game. You can be a legend but if you can't work with the management out you go. It is the same everywhere.
Look at Vieira or Pires or even Duff.
Please don't be so one-sided lah.
i dont think i am one sided.that why i dont say theo walcott is developing talents coz he is already famous when wenger bought him and he cost over 10million pound.
what i am trying to point that SAF has not produce any raw talent since beckham, scholes, butt, neville bros. he is pressure to produce instant results.
[/b] -
great talents can't be produced day in day out, even the world reowned AFC Ajax which had produced endless players whom goes on to be the best in their respective game after leaving Ajax, is now struggling to produces good players even if they are suppposed to be the best in youth training programe.
Becks, Ruud, Keano, Stam, Ince and many more are being thrown out of OT either because they are almost at their sell by dates or they had run into problems with SAF *reads - The Boss* the thing that a manager needs to be able to do after a big player leaves is be able to find a replacement, which in this cases SAF is able to do it, and did it well if you ask me, Manu had at most suffer a season before their teams start playing well again so i don't see why selling them without the golden hand shake is of a concern, also i don't remember Patrick Viera feeling grateful towards AW when he leaves.
buying raw talents and polishing them into true talents is no wrong, of course it would be the best if its like what Manu or Ajax did with Becks, Giggs, Butt, Scholes, Kanu, Patrick Kluivertetc.. whom is able to mature from youth team to win the ulitmate ECL and football league of the respective country but without a good manager to mature raw uncut talents they will probably be known as wasted talent in years to come, like what happened to a couple of big name youngster brought by a big name *reads - money is everything* club and got their talent wasted in reserve games before being sold away to make room for newer "rawer" talents. -
Jose -50% luck, 50% $$
SAF-40% luck, 40% skill, 20% $$
Wenger-70% skill ,15% luck, 15% $$
In term of financal backing Jose has it in Chelsea. SAF is consider good on $$ spending, but Wenger has little to complete with those 2.
Luck is very important in UCL, look at both Porto and pool, they when into final not as a favourite. SAF did it in 99 with last minute goals not 1 but 2.
On management skill Wenger did many ground work on the team, SAF did it in the begining but after he got the $$ he turn to young telant from other club, like Rio,Rooney...., for Jose in porto, they fight all the way cos they lost nothing and in Chelsea I feel that he is under perform with that kind of support and resouces.
Wenger need $$ to turn his team around to win cos his name is too big to win the UCL, other team will not treat him like 99 man U, 04 pool or 03 porto, they will fight 100% to win them cos everyone want to beat them. -
Man Utd is under heavy debts since the take over from the Yankees.. and we are not talking abt debts of 80m neither are we talking abt loans from one of the owners, we are talking abt debts of over 200m (can't quite remember the actual figure) and its Bank loan that needs regularly servicing, nothing to be proud of just wanna show how lucky Chelsea is thats all.Originally posted by ghimpheng:not much or no manager will do well under such heavy debts -
[quote]Originally posted by dinky1409:
Mourinho did what Ranieri couldn't do.
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is this really true?
ranieri left when RA took over right? he wasnt given a chance to prove himself. i am not saying ranieri is good but just he wasnt given a chance to prove that with the money provided by RA he could have won titles with chelsea too. -
Ranieri actually had a full season to prove himself after Roman took over Chelsea and IMHO he did reasonablely well, he didn't go out there and buy like what Jose did during Jose 1st season but he did purchased a couple of big names players from England and aboard too just that i believed Roman already had someone on his mind to take over as manager prior to his taking over and Ranieri hasn't been truly given the support by him and was quickly disposed off and had Jose taken over.. remembered there was even a time when ppl are having a debate over whether Ranieri should be given more time to prove his worth and even had rival fans rooting for Chelsea to win in the ECL because they like Ranieri as Chelsea manager..Originally posted by dragg:[quote]Originally posted by dinky1409:
Mourinho did what Ranieri couldn't do.
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is this really true?
ranieri left when RA took over right? he wasnt given a chance to prove himself. i am not saying ranieri is good but just he wasnt given a chance to prove that with the money provided by RA he could have won titles with chelsea too. -
to sum it all up, each has their own merits.
no matter how you look, it is not an apple to apple comparisons.
Credit to Wenger for changing how boring Gunners were to the best free-flowing EPL team.
Credit to SAF for daring to use the youngsters and in result create history in winning the treble.
Credit to Mourinho for coming into EPL, and turning Chelsea into the force it is now, and the way EPL evolves from marathon to a 38games Sprint.
Credit to RB for giving Liverpool their 5th European Cup.
Let's close the topic. -
Amen...?Originally posted by iceFatboy:to sum it all up, each has their own merits.
no matter how you look, it is not an apple to apple comparisons.
Credit to Wenger for changing how boring Gunners were to the best free-flowing EPL team.
Credit to SAF for daring to use the youngsters and in result create history in winning the treble.
Credit to Mourinho for coming into EPL, and turning Chelsea into the force it is now, and the way EPL evolves from marathon to a 38games Sprint.
Credit to RB for giving Liverpool their 5th European Cup.
Let's close the topic. -
mourinho for me ...
it may not be pretty soccer as arsene wenger but he gets the job done and end result wanted -
Credit to Sam Allardyce for bringing Bolton into the Uefa Cup and resurrecting the Trotters' league fortunes.Originally posted by iceFatboy:to sum it all up, each has their own merits.
no matter how you look, it is not an apple to apple comparisons.
Credit to Wenger for changing how boring Gunners were to the best free-flowing EPL team.
Credit to SAF for daring to use the youngsters and in result create history in winning the treble.
Credit to Mourinho for coming into EPL, and turning Chelsea into the force it is now, and the way EPL evolves from marathon to a 38games Sprint.
Credit to RB for giving Liverpool their 5th European Cup.
Let's close the topic. -
for me, Big Sam managed to tame the french stallion, Anelka.
Quite remarkable. -
Even Arsene Wenger couldn't quite handle the sulky brat.Originally posted by iceFatboy:for me, Big Sam managed to tame the french stallion, Anelka.
Quite remarkable.
Gerard Houllier found Anelka surplus to requirements and Kevin keegan had problems with him as well. -
ARISE THE LOT OF YOU, AND WELL DESERVED
Oliver Holt 07/03/2007
I HAVE never agreed with the honours system. Too often, it rewards the rich, the privileged, the useful, the backside-kissers, the friends and acolytes of politicians, the craven, the vainglorious, the insane and celebrities who use their charity work to make even more money for themselves.
This government, sadly, has made the system worse. Not just because of the whiff of venality that has accompanied the Cash for Honours scandal but also because of its eagerness to shower various OBEs, CBEs, MBEs and knighthoods on sportsmen and women in an attempt to use them as vehicles for vote-winning.
When Ellen MacArthur was nearing the end of her last round-the-world race, for instance, it was revealed she was to be made a Dame before she'd even set foot on dry land.
But I have also seen the happiness and the pride that an honour can bring, particularly to so-called ordinary people from whom the oxygen of recognition is often withheld.
Earlier this year, I saw the anticipation of the father of Richard Hudson, a record-breaking swimmer who happens to have Down's Syndrome, when he was planning his son's trip to Buckingham Palace to collect his gong.
That's partly why I hope the 25,000 people who have signed a petition pushing for a posthumous knighthood for Bob Paisley get their wish.
They, and the MPs who are supporting them, are right when they say that Paisley was the greatest manager English football has ever had.
They are also right to point out the iniquity of the fact that while Sir Alex Ferguson was recognised for winning one European Cup for Manchester United, Paisley won three for Liverpool and was ignored.
While they're at it, I hope they start agitating for a posthumous knighthood for Bobby Moore, too. And George Best. And Brian Clough. And Jock Stein. And Bill Shankly. And Bill Nicholson.
Many were the great football men who were never considered for honours in the time before politicians realised that paying lip-service to the game was worth a couple of decimal points in opinion poll ratings.
And if we can right some of the wrongs of the past and give men like Paisley, Clough and Moore their due, so much the better.
Some might say such widespread retroactivism would make a mockery of the system. The answer to that is the system is a mockery of everything it should be already.
So I hope the campaign succeeds and that we bestow belated honours on Paisley and the rest of those who were unjustly overlooked in the past.
But even more than giving honours to the deserving dead, I hope we learn from the mistakes of the past and give them to the deserving living.
Why, for instance, has Jimmy Greaves, one of England's greatest ever goalscorers and a member of the 1966 World Cup winning squad, never received an honour?
Why did this government consider it right to give an MBE to a spin doctor who helped win London the 2012 Olympics by forgetting to mention it might cost £10 billion and yet leave a man like Greaves unrecognised?
Greaves scored 44 goals in 57 matches for his country. His strike rate was phenomenal. It's still unmatched.
Is it because he was flawed, like all the rest of us, that he was overlooked? Is it because he was an alcoholic? Well, he's beaten that as well. Make him Sir Jimmy Greaves. And what about Paul Gascoigne? What about Gazza?
What about the genius who made football fashionable and attractive again in this country?
What about the guy who helped to lead the English game out of the darkness of the Eighties, the guy whose tears launched a thousand foreign takeovers and made younger players not fit to lace his boots into millionaires overnight?
He was the best player of his generation and now he is being allowed to stumble around on the periphery of the game, alone with his problems, apart from some help by the PFA.
What about him? Think what it might do for him after all the issues he has had with self-esteem and alcoholism. For his contribution to our game, he deserves to be Sir Paul Gascoigne.
There are so many more. What about Bryan Robson, who never gave anything less than his all as England captain? What about Terry Butcher? And Nobby Stiles? And Roger Hunt? And Alan Ball?
What about Ryan Giggs, who has been such a magnificent player for Manchester United?
If we're going to have an honours system, let's knight them now. That way, we won't have to try to correct more of the same injustice that was visited on men like Paisley and Clough